teaching friend how to drive

[a***@mailinator.com]

Hi,

I would like to teach my friend how to drive a car. The driving
schools here are very expensive.

I was thinking that I could take him to some large open space (these
are not so easy to find) which is not frequented by people and teach
him there. This is how I learnt how to drive from a friend in India.

Do you think it is legally ok to do so in Japan?

Somebody told me that in Japan, if you want to teach somebody how to
drive, you can do so only inside a driving range. And for this you
should have had a Japanese driving license for a minimum of 3 years.

Thanks,
Ashish

[longtallm]

Ashish,
You're a good friend, trying to teach a friend to drive.
Unfortunately, it is very dangerous to learn to drive on a Japanese
driving range. They are usually built in 3 or 4 tiers and only about
300 yards long. Your car would fall from a high tier and even if you
survived that, you wouldn't have much room for driving around.

(I sincerely apologize. The above paragraph was a truly bad, if
unavoidable, joke. It refers to the famous multi-tiered golf driving
ranges in Japan.)

Wouldn't a parking lot be big enough for a start?

Post by a***@mailinator.com
Hi,
I would like to teach my friend how to drive a car. The driving
schools here are very expensive.
I was thinking that I could take him to some large open space (these
are not so easy to find) which is not frequented by people and teach
him there. This is how I learnt how to drive from a friend in India.
Do you think it is legally ok to do so in Japan?
Somebody told me that in Japan, if you want to teach somebody how to
drive, you can do so only inside a driving range. And for this you
should have had a Japanese driving license for a minimum of 3 years.
Thanks,
Ashish

[Grendel]

Post by longtallm
Ashish,
You're a good friend, trying to teach a friend to drive.
Unfortunately, it is very dangerous to learn to drive on a Japanese
driving range. They are usually built in 3 or 4 tiers and only about
300 yards long. Your car would fall from a high tier and even if you
survived that, you wouldn't have much room for driving around.
(I sincerely apologize. The above paragraph was a truly bad, if
unavoidable, joke. It refers to the famous multi-tiered golf driving
ranges in Japan.)
Wouldn't a parking lot be big enough for a start?

In many countries it is not allowed to teach how to drive in public
spaces without an appropriate license (in contrast to private company
backyards i.e.). I could imagine that the police could fine you if you
did that.

Post by longtallm

Post by a***@mailinator.com
Hi,
I would like to teach my friend how to drive a car. The driving
schools here are very expensive.
I was thinking that I could take him to some large open space (these
are not so easy to find) which is not frequented by people and teach
him there. This is how I learnt how to drive from a friend in India.
Do you think it is legally ok to do so in Japan?
Somebody told me that in Japan, if you want to teach somebody how to
drive, you can do so only inside a driving range. And for this you
should have had a Japanese driving license for a minimum of 3 years.
Thanks,
Ashish

[John Becker]

Grendel,
Thanks for setting me straight on that. In the U.S., you can get a
"learner's permit" when you are 16 years old. This allows you to drive
in the daytime, but only if you have a licensed driver in the car with
you. Once you have that permit, you may drive on public roads (or
practice in a parking lot).
Does Japan have something like a learner's permit?

longtallm

Post by Grendel

Post by longtallm
Ashish,
You're a good friend, trying to teach a friend to drive.
Unfortunately, it is very dangerous to learn to drive on a Japanese
driving range. They are usually built in 3 or 4 tiers and only about
300 yards long. Your car would fall from a high tier and even if you
survived that, you wouldn't have much room for driving around.
(I sincerely apologize. The above paragraph was a truly bad, if
unavoidable, joke. It refers to the famous multi-tiered golf driving
ranges in Japan.)
Wouldn't a parking lot be big enough for a start?

In many countries it is not allowed to teach how to drive in public
spaces without an appropriate license (in contrast to private company
backyards i.e.). I could imagine that the police could fine you if you
did that.

Post by longtallm

Post by a***@mailinator.com
Hi,
I would like to teach my friend how to drive a car. The driving
schools here are very expensive.
I was thinking that I could take him to some large open space (these
are not so easy to find) which is not frequented by people and teach
him there. This is how I learnt how to drive from a friend in India.
Do you think it is legally ok to do so in Japan?
Somebody told me that in Japan, if you want to teach somebody how to
drive, you can do so only inside a driving range. And for this you
should have had a Japanese driving license for a minimum of 3 years.
Thanks,
Ashish

[Cindy]

Post by John Becker
Grendel,
Thanks for setting me straight on that. In the U.S., you can get a
"learner's permit" when you are 16 years old. This allows you to drive
in the daytime, but only if you have a licensed driver in the car with
you. Once you have that permit, you may drive on public roads (or
practice in a parking lot).
Does Japan have something like a learner's permit?

Let me put in this way. Learning driving in Japan is rather learning
traffic safety in Japan. Operating an automobile is the second
priority. They will teach you how to follow the rules in driving
school. Without such training, you may feel able to follow all the
traffic signs and communication methods while driving, but there are
many more to remember. For example, do you know that you are not allowed
to drive if you have drunk alcohol in Japan? (In the US and some other
countries, you drive to pub or night club to drink. ) They also teach
you some emergency situation such as what you should do when the brake
become malfunction on the road.

Regarding a learner's permit, there is no such thing. If there was,
there would be numerous traffic accidents. In Japan, traffic accidents
are killing more people than the war. They can not increase the number
by issuing a learning permit. Get properly trained at driving school.

In fact, the test is very tough. If you want to pass it, go to school.
If you don't care, just drive illegally and don't get caught.

[James Eckman]

Post by Cindy

Post by John Becker
Grendel,
Thanks for setting me straight on that. In the U.S., you can get a
"learner's permit" when you are 16 years old.

Depends on the state, also in farming states, youngsters can drive on
farm business at a younger age. Scary thought! I'm not sure if Japan has
special laws related to farm vehicles.

Post by Cindy
Let me put in this way. Learning driving in Japan is rather learning
traffic safety in Japan. Operating an automobile is the second
priority.

I've only seen bad TV dramas on the subject so I'm not sure, but if you
can't operate your vehicle properly, that sounds like a disaster waiting
to happen.

Post by Cindy
For example, do you know that you are not allowed
to drive if you have drunk alcohol in Japan?

This is very wise on the part of Japan, they had roughly 8,500 traffic
fatalities while the US had about 20,000 fatalities involving drinking.
This doesn't count non-alchohol related deaths. Another good argument
for being able to take mass transit to the pub!

Post by Cindy
In Japan, traffic accidents are killing more people than the war.

Is this true? While the Japanese haven't fought any real wars in 60
years, even figuring the peak rate of accidents, it's only 1.2 million
people. In the 70's Japan was losing somewhere near 20,000 people a
year, but now it's about half that.

Post by Cindy
They can not increase the number by issuing a learning permit. Get properly trained at driving school.

In this case I would recommend that but it is expensive according to my
friends.

Post by Cindy
In fact, the test is very tough. If you want to pass it, go to school.
If you don't care, just drive illegally and don't get caught.

There's some method of converting foreign licenses to Japanese licenses,
I've had several Japanese friends come to the US and take driver's
training here so they can bypass the Japanese training and drivers exam
system. I'm not exactly sure how it works and I suspect you have to be a
legal resident or citizen. It also may work only with certain foreign
countries or maybe even states in some cases. It also might be on a case
by case basis.

Jim Eckman

[Don Kirkman]

It seems to me I heard somewhere that James Eckman wrote in article

Post by James Eckman

Post by Cindy

Post by John Becker
Grendel,
Thanks for setting me straight on that. In the U.S., you can get a
"learner's permit" when you are 16 years old.

Depends on the state, also in farming states, youngsters can drive on
farm business at a younger age. Scary thought! I'm not sure if Japan has
special laws related to farm vehicles.

Post by Cindy
Let me put in this way. Learning driving in Japan is rather learning
traffic safety in Japan. Operating an automobile is the second
priority.

I've only seen bad TV dramas on the subject so I'm not sure, but if you
can't operate your vehicle properly, that sounds like a disaster waiting
to happen.

Post by Cindy
For example, do you know that you are not allowed
to drive if you have drunk alcohol in Japan?

This is very wise on the part of Japan, they had roughly 8,500 traffic
fatalities while the US had about 20,000 fatalities involving drinking.
This doesn't count non-alchohol related deaths. Another good argument
for being able to take mass transit to the pub!

Post by Cindy
In Japan, traffic accidents are killing more people than the war.

Is this true? While the Japanese haven't fought any real wars in 60
years, even figuring the peak rate of accidents, it's only 1.2 million
people. In the 70's Japan was losing somewhere near 20,000 people a
year, but now it's about half that.

Post by Cindy
They can not increase the number by issuing a learning permit. Get properly trained at driving school.

In this case I would recommend that but it is expensive according to my
friends.

Post by Cindy
In fact, the test is very tough. If you want to pass it, go to school.
If you don't care, just drive illegally and don't get caught.

There's some method of converting foreign licenses to Japanese licenses,
I've had several Japanese friends come to the US and take driver's
training here so they can bypass the Japanese training and drivers exam
system. I'm not exactly sure how it works and I suspect you have to be a
legal resident or citizen. It also may work only with certain foreign
countries or maybe even states in some cases. It also might be on a case
by case basis.

I'd forgotten that, and it may not be the same now as when I lived in
Japan, but back then a foreigner with a valid license from his home
country or state could get a Japanese license fairly easily. I had one
for the four years or so I drove in Japan, rarely had to show it, and
never had it questioned. I think the Japanese license expired if the
underlying foreign license did, so that could be a complication for a
long-term resident even if the system is still available.

I can't recall any examination or driving skills test before they wrote
up the license for me.

[Scott Reynolds]

Post by Don Kirkman
It seems to me I heard somewhere that James Eckman wrote in article

Post by James Eckman
There's some method of converting foreign licenses to Japanese licenses,
I've had several Japanese friends come to the US and take driver's
training here so they can bypass the Japanese training and drivers exam
system.

They closed that loophole long ago. You can still switch from a foreign
license to a Japanese license fairly easily, but you have to have had
the foreign license for a certain amount of time (six months I think it
was) before you last entered Japan. This requirement was specifically
designed to prevent people from taking a quick trip to Guam or Honolulu,
getting a US license, and then converting to a Japanese license upon
their return.

Post by Don Kirkman
I'd forgotten that, and it may not be the same now as when I lived in
Japan, but back then a foreigner with a valid license from his home
country or state could get a Japanese license fairly easily. I had one
for the four years or so I drove in Japan, rarely had to show it, and
never had it questioned. I think the Japanese license expired if the
underlying foreign license did, so that could be a complication for a
long-term resident even if the system is still available.

If the system was as you describe it then, it is different now. If you
switch to a Japanese license, your new license is exactly the same as if
you were a newly licensed driver in Japan (with the exception that you
are not required to put an "aoba" (beginner) sticker on your car for the
first year). The new Japanese license is not tied to your old foreign
license in any way.

Also, though I used the term "switch" ("kirikae" in Japanese), obtaining
a Japanese license has no effect on your foreign license. You can
continue to use it on visits home, have it renewed, etc.

[Don Kirkman]

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Scott Reynolds wrote in article

Post by Scott Reynolds

Post by Don Kirkman
It seems to me I heard somewhere that James Eckman wrote in article

Post by James Eckman
There's some method of converting foreign licenses to Japanese licenses,
I've had several Japanese friends come to the US and take driver's
training here so they can bypass the Japanese training and drivers exam
system.

They closed that loophole long ago. You can still switch from a foreign
license to a Japanese license fairly easily, but you have to have had
the foreign license for a certain amount of time (six months I think it
was) before you last entered Japan. This requirement was specifically
designed to prevent people from taking a quick trip to Guam or Honolulu,
getting a US license, and then converting to a Japanese license upon
their return.

Post by Don Kirkman
I'd forgotten that, and it may not be the same now as when I lived in
Japan, but back then a foreigner with a valid license from his home
country or state could get a Japanese license fairly easily. I had one
for the four years or so I drove in Japan, rarely had to show it, and
never had it questioned. I think the Japanese license expired if the
underlying foreign license did, so that could be a complication for a
long-term resident even if the system is still available.

If the system was as you describe it then, it is different now. If you
switch to a Japanese license, your new license is exactly the same as if
you were a newly licensed driver in Japan (with the exception that you
are not required to put an "aoba" (beginner) sticker on your car for the
first year). The new Japanese license is not tied to your old foreign
license in any way.
Also, though I used the term "switch" ("kirikae" in Japanese), obtaining
a Japanese license has no effect on your foreign license. You can
continue to use it on visits home, have it renewed, etc.

Thanks for the clarification and update, Scott. Good to see you posting
again; don't be a stranger in these parts. :-)

[Scott Reynolds]

Post by Don Kirkman
Thanks for the clarification and update, Scott. Good to see you posting
again; don't be a stranger in these parts. :-)

Thank you for the kind words, Don.

And to put some Japan-related content into this post: It was snowing (!)
yesterday in Tokyo, but today the sun is out. They say the temperature
should rise tomorrow, so spring must finally be coming. I suppose the
cherry blossoms can't be far behind.

[James Eckman]

Post by Scott Reynolds

Post by James Eckman
There's some method of converting foreign licenses to Japanese licenses,

They closed that loophole long ago. You can still switch from a foreign
license to a Japanese license fairly easily, but you have to have had
the foreign license for a certain amount of time (six months I think it
was) before you last entered Japan.

That's probably true, all the people I know doing that now were in the
US for a year or more on either student, visiting scholar or work visas.
While there was some crazy talk about issuing licenses on Mexican
residency papers, you would probably require proof of legal residence in
California.

Jim Eckman

[Walter Grendel]

Post by Cindy

Post by John Becker
Grendel,
Thanks for setting me straight on that. In the U.S., you can get a
"learner's permit" when you are 16 years old. This allows you to drive
in the daytime, but only if you have a licensed driver in the car with
you. Once you have that permit, you may drive on public roads (or
practice in a parking lot).
Does Japan have something like a learner's permit?

Let me put in this way. Learning driving in Japan is rather learning
traffic safety in Japan. Operating an automobile is the second
priority.

Actually, that sounds like driversŽ education in Michigan. I had half
the points neccessary to pass after the engine was turned on (and
checked everything in and around my car), the rest wasnŽt too difficult.
As you wrote, the test in Japan includes written and practice, could you
be more specific about the difficulty of the test? Did you take it yourself?

Post by Cindy
They will teach you how to follow the rules in driving
school. Without such training, you may feel able to follow all the
traffic signs and communication methods while driving, but there are
many more to remember.

Just curious: I canŽt remember any more, how many traffic signs in Japan
are in Japanese - somewhere in the back of my head I think I read
something about traffic signs and internationalization, but since itŽs
four years ago and I didnŽt drive at all there, I donŽt know any more...

Post by Cindy
For example, do you know that you are not allowed
to drive if you have drunk alcohol in Japan? (In the US and some other
countries, you drive to pub or night club to drink. ) They also teach
you some emergency situation such as what you should do when the brake
become malfunction on the road.
Regarding a learner's permit, there is no such thing. If there was,
there would be numerous traffic accidents. In Japan, traffic accidents
are killing more people than the war.

Depends on which war weŽre talking about ;-)
regards,

WG

[James Eckman]

Post by Walter Grendel
Depends on which war weŽre talking about ;-)
regards,

True, let's agree not to count the Japanese or the American Civil Wars
^_^. Hmm counting that, it might be possible that the greatest number of
Japanese killed in war were killed by Japanese. This was true in the US
for Americans until Vietnam came along.

I'm not counting in the slaughter of natives though. Too hard to figure
which side to count them on.

Not true for much of the rest of the world. Most countries were repeatly
invaded by their neighbors.

Jim Eckman

[m***@netMAPSONscape.net]

Post by James Eckman

Depends on which war we?re talking about ;-)
regards,

True, let's agree not to count the Japanese or the American Civil Wars
^_^. Hmm counting that, it might be possible that the greatest number of
Japanese killed in war were killed by Japanese. This was true in the US
for Americans until Vietnam came along.

No. More Americans died in the Civil war than in all US wars combined.

More Americans died of combat deaths in WWII than any other US war.

At its peak, the US highways killed about 50k in a year, about
equalling Vietnam.

Japan lost roughly 2-3 million people in WWII, so their highways have a
LONG way to go to catch up.

Post by James Eckman
I'm not counting in the slaughter of natives though. Too hard to figure

In the Western Hemisphere, relatively few natives were killed outright;
most died of disease, without ever meeting a European.

In Japan, the natives were killed or driven north.

Post by James Eckman
Not true for much of the rest of the world.

Yes, actually it is.

Mike

[James Eckman]

Post by m***@netMAPSONscape.net
No. More Americans died in the Civil war than in all US wars combined.

That could be depending on who's counting but the figures I'm using are
about 460K for the US civil war which barely surpassed when you add all
of our other wars together. I didn't add in the revolutionary war or
previous periods, we weren't Americans yet. (about 25K)

For those who missed some of the previous posts, I'm drawing a parallel
between Japan and the US. Neither has been seriously invaded by their
neighbors with the exception of Okinawa and the failed Mongol attempts
in Japan's case. Counting murder, most of the deaths of Japanese and
Americans are self-inflicted. Both countries have been isolationists for
much of their history.

Granted I'm not counting disease at all, it's normally a natural cause
with the exception of Europeans deliberately spreading smallpox to
Indians in some limited cases.

On the other hand, Europe and the Middle East however have been invading
and killing their neighbors for millenia and some countries have ceased
to exist because of their neighbors actions, Carthage and some of the
small German states for example were completely destroyed.

In WW2 1/6 of all Poles died through German or Russian actions. About
10% for Germany and Russia. Since Germany didn't exist as a nation until
about 1870, you could say they never fought a civil war.

Post by m***@netMAPSONscape.net
More Americans died of combat deaths in WWII than any other US war.

Until WW2 most military deaths came from disease for all countries.

Post by m***@netMAPSONscape.net

Post by James Eckman
Not true for much of the rest of the world.

Yes, actually it is.

Do you mean deaths from disease or war?

Jim Eckman

[m***@netMAPSONscape.net]

Post by James Eckman

Post by m***@netMAPSONscape.net
No. More Americans died in the Civil war than in all US wars combined.

That could be depending on who's counting but the figures I'm using are
about 460K for the US civil war which barely surpassed when you add all
of our other wars together.

If you count the POWs who died in prison, it's over 500, usually.

Post by James Eckman
I didn't add in the revolutionary war or
previous periods, we weren't Americans yet. (about 25K)

That would be less than 5k.

Post by James Eckman
Granted I'm not counting disease at all, it's normally a natural cause

Which is where most war deaths occur.

Post by James Eckman
with the exception of Europeans deliberately spreading smallpox to
Indians in some limited cases.

Except that, in the famous case, you can't contract smallpox via
used blankets.

Post by James Eckman
On the other hand, Europe and the Middle East however have been invading
and killing their neighbors for millenia and some countries have ceased
to exist because of their neighbors actions, Carthage and some of the
small German states for example were completely destroyed.

In Germany's case, they were simply mostly absorbed.

Post by James Eckman
In WW2 1/6 of all Poles died through German or Russian actions. About
10% for Germany and Russia. Since Germany didn't exist as a nation until
about 1870, you could say they never fought a civil war.

Or you could say they fought a series of them.

Post by James Eckman

Post by m***@netMAPSONscape.net
More Americans died of combat deaths in WWII than any other US war.

Until WW2 most military deaths came from disease for all countries.

Post by m***@netMAPSONscape.net

Post by James Eckman
Not true for much of the rest of the world.

Yes, actually it is.

Do you mean deaths from disease or war?

Deaths being normally higher for internal than foreign wars. Humans
hate pagans, but can't forgive heretics.

Mike

[m***@netMAPSONscape.net]

Just curious: I can?t remember any more, how many traffic signs in Japan
are in Japanese - somewhere in the back of my head I think I read
something about traffic signs and internationalization, but since it?s
four years ago and I didn?t drive at all there, I don?t know any more...

Most signs are simply signs. Very little (except for "Tomare", painted
on the street itself) are written in Japanese. Destination signs are
in both Japanese and romaji.

Post by Cindy
Regarding a learner's permit, there is no such thing. If there was,
there would be numerous traffic accidents. In Japan, traffic accidents
are killing more people than the war.

Depends on which war we?re talking about ;-)

Actually, that's true of most countries.

Mike

[Cindy]

Actually, that sounds like drivers=B4 education in Michigan. I had half=

=20

the points neccessary to pass after the engine was turned on (and=20
checked everything in and around my car), the rest wasn=B4t too difficu=

lt.=20

As you wrote, the test in Japan includes written and practice, could yo=

u=20

be more specific about the difficulty of the test? Did you take it your=

self?

All the information in my last post is what I heard from a Japanese
woman from Kagoshima. She had never driven in Japan and came to the
USA. She got a first driver's license in TX and lived there for seven
years. She went back to Japan and got a Japanese license. She failed
the first test because she hadn't prepared for the test at all. She had
thought it would be a piece of cake. Then, she attended a special class
and learned general rules and concept on the road in Japan. She passed
second time. She told me that she could've passed at the first time if
she'd known all that information that were taught in the class. Duh!

So, the test is tough if you don't study and prepare for it. Since many
foreign drivers think they are competent because they have been driving
for years. However, if you are driving in the different country, maybe
it is a good idea to stop and check the country's traffic rules again.

In my case, I went to driving school and got a license in Japan. Then,
I went to Hawaii and got another again. Then, I moved to Texas and had
my license renewed. If I go to Japan, I am so scared to drive there.
There are so many small roads with two way traffic. There are so many
pedestrians who don't care about the cars on the street. Bicycles,
motor cycles, school kids, never opening fumikiri, two lane express
ways, shoutengai, and on and on and on are not for me.

Just curious: I can=B4t remember any more, how many traffic signs in Ja=

pan=20

are in Japanese - somewhere in the back of my head I think I read=20
something about traffic signs and internationalization, but since it=B4=

s=20

four years ago and I didn=B4t drive at all there, I don=B4t know any mo=

re...

They are color coded basically -- green, yellow, and red, just like
traffic lights. Green is permission, yellow caution, and red law
enforcement. They may be self-explanatory to you, but I recommend you
go over with a hand book or a self test.

For example, do you know that you are not allowed=20
to drive if you have drunk alcohol in Japan? (In the US and some other=

=20

countries, you drive to pub or night club to drink. ) They also teach=20
you some emergency situation such as what you should do when the brake=20
become malfunction on the road.
Regarding a learner's permit, there is no such thing. If there was,=20
there would be numerous traffic accidents. In Japan, traffic accidents=

=20

are killing more people than the war.=20

=20
Depends on which war we=B4re talking about ;-)
regards,

Ah, that was just a figure of speech, and I heard it from media a long
time ago. It was a good comparison to convince people how serious the
problem was at the time.